(no subject)

[bellwether]

Do you remember where you were when we last declared war on Iraq and Hussein? I was in 8th grade, and was skiing down Buck Hill in Burnsville, MN with the ski club from my junior high. It was exhilarating to think that we were at war--I was worried that we'd never have a war again after Vietnam.... apparently things like Grenada, and all the other smaller conflicts in the 80s passed underneath my radar. I think I screamed "We're at war!" and sped down the hill fueled by an adrenaline surge.

Iraq was bad of course, because they invaded Kuwait--to steal their oil. Of course, we should be protecting Kuwait from the invaders! That just made sense--we were powerful and had troops. It was a mission of goodwill--and if we got some oil out of it, well, that only made sense.

This was Kevin in 8th grade. A diehard young Republican, born and bred.

Flash forward twelve years.

Today, I'm scared.

I'm scared that we are entering into a situation where the government of the most powerful nation on the planet will shortly be undetaking a "military operation" without the mandate of it's people. We are not an empire, and the business of empire-building is not what the United States is supposed to be built on. It seems like the administration is forgetting that. The refusal to build consensus and work with the international community is aggravating, and ultimately will prove harmful to our relations.

The protests yesterday in Westwood, last week at UCLA, and across the country are the one ray of light in this whole situation. People are talking about the ethics of war and whether one nation has the right to throw it's weight around and attempt to make international policy. However, every day that passes it becomes clearer and clearer that the current adminstration is not interested in the opinions of it's populace, nor even their well-being.

We lack a mandate. We are going to attack a nation that has done nothing to directly provoke us. Is Hussein a "bad guy?" Yes. He's done horrible things. Does that give us the right to drop bombs on innocent Iraqis? Not in my book.

This daily chant of "weapons of mass destruction, weapons of mass destruction" is beginning to sound like Peter's cry of "Wolf!" Hussein in all likelihood does have anthrax, VX gas, smallpox, or who knows what other biological or chemical weapons. He'd be a fool not to--this morning on NPR, Gore Vidal asked if you could really expect a nation not to protect itself when the US is on such an agressive stance? Will he use them? He hasn't in twelve years. However we certainly are giving him every provocation to do so now. This situation can only get much worse before it gets better.

It's still a battle for oil--with our oil supply predicted to be exhausted by 2020, we need more fuel. Anyone who says that the war in Iraq isn't about oil isn't thinking.

I'm scared. Today, I'm much more quiet than I was twelve years ago. Perhaps that's part of the problem.

Comments

[ukelele.livejournal.com]

7th grade: waiting for the schoolbus after my morning breakfast-and-CNN. It was my dad's birthday, and there was a rainbow. I found that strikingly odd. There was a walkout at my junior high later that day, but I didn't participate, because it seemed to me silly -- as in, if it had actually been about principles, I might have considered walking, but these were junior high schoolers -- it was an excuse to skip class and evade punishment.

I, of course, was at the time a diehard independent/Democrat, just like my parents ;). I find it astonishing that you were a Republican. But I guess you went to the military school, too, didn't you? People never cease to surprise.

I'm also a lot quieter on politics than I was at the time. Is that part of the problem? I don't know...it was easy to say loud and absolute things when I was twelve, because I was just learning how to see in shades of grey. Now I see in so many shades of grey, and with so little confidence in my own talents for politics, economics, and prognostication that I'm not willing to speak. I have high standards for political speech; I think people should only be speaking so loudly if they understand the issues better than others, if they have a well-reasoned critique, if they have an alternative to offer. I don't believe myself capable of meeting this standard on the vast majority of issues. Is being paralyzed by indecision morally better than stating claims I can't feel one hundred percent comfortable with? Maybe, maybe not...but it's what I have in my moral universe.

I think the world as a whole is lacking right now, lacking a true and mutual dialogue on complicated issues, people willing to state complex positions. I mean, there are some of them there, but too few, and they aren't dominant voices. It's one of the things that worries me about the anti-war protesters who have been so ubiquitous of late: the same broad umbrella that lets so many people protest shelters so many alternatives to war that few are articulated. And, at the same time, certain pathologies of American politics have kept our leadership from effectively articulating a pro-war position. I think many cases on all sides could be well-made (which would leave me just as unmoored as before, unable to accept one as wholly right or reject one as wholly wrong, drowned in shades of grey), but I have seen few cases truly made at all.

(Maybe I'm too hung up on the moral and philosophical cases. It is a battle for oil -- for France and Russia as much as for America. But I'm more interested in the ideologies of just war, articulation of a moral defense for breaches of sovereignty, the proxy war fought over the shape of the post-Cold-War world and the limits on a sole superpower's strength...hopelessly abstract and philosophical things I can't get my brain around. But would it help to look at the pragmatics, the history of oil and nukes and intervention and aid? Probably not, because everyone has culpability there, too, and once again there's no immaculate solution.)

But to pick up the main thread again -- if you are a person who can articulate complex cases clearly and without vitriol, then my world at any rate would be made better, and in my opinion the world at large would be. I see your case against war -- what's your case for an alternative?

[bellwethr.livejournal.com]

Your thoughts are well spoken. I disagree about the lack an international dialogue--I think that there is an ongoing debate about the complicated issued surrounding the current situation. However, our leaders in their infinite wisdom have chosen to ignore the discussion when it was clear that it wasn't going the way they wanted.

I was impressed with Chile's willingness to put forth a plan; secondary members of the security council often seem marginalized next to the veto powers. I respect their willingness to come forward and suggest that maybe the United States should listen to someone else for a change. Bush's offhand rejection of their proposal left me with a sour taste.

Military school: *laugh* yup. Actually, military school was where I figured out that maybe conservatism wasn't all that it was cracked up to be. High school was where I met two guys, Jim and Joe Jordan, who forever changed my views on politics, international affairs, and social issues. St. Thomas was good for me--it exposed me to conservative idiots, and a pair of extremely intelligent liberals. *grin* Also, dating Alison for the last four years has affected my politics more than I'd care to admit. She's extremely bright, and passionated about her causes. I may not always agree with her, but I do respect her opinions.

As far as speaking out--my thoughts are that at this point, the more voices the better. We need the administration to be aware of the extent to which the populace does not support the current policies.

Your point on just war is interesting--that really seems to be the important issue that the international dialogue should be exploring: when is it just to go to war? at what point should the international community step in to step human rights abuses? These are extraordinarily hard questions.

[morganlf.livejournal.com]

your car will now speak one of these three slogans

wage peace
creat peace
peace is patriotic

(see my livejournal for details)

[bellwethr.livejournal.com]

wage peace, baby.

[amoken.livejournal.com]

I hate the bully mentality our leadership seems to have.

We dislike Saddam cuz he's a jerk and he doesn't do things like us.
They have oil. We want oil. Let's devise a way to take it.
Leaders in the past have been re-elected for starting and doing well in wars. We want to be re-elected.
War helps the economy. We like that. Also gets us re-elected.
The weapon thing might get people in a rage. Everyone has weapons, but nobody likes them so nobody wants them to have weapons. Let's use that.

It'd be nice to think that perhaps they were acting on some intelligence information that they can't tell us, but I kinda doubt it. We're just bullying to get stuff and to control other people, and then trying to rationalize it (poorly). Not cool.

[fallowpastures.livejournal.com]

I wish that I could articulate an opinion one way or another in this situation, but I don't think that my say is accurately represented by saying I'm anti-war or pro-war. The situation is just not clear enough as to who's holding what in their hand. It certainly seems to me that the current administration is war-mongering, but it's a little hard for me to know that they are when they claim there are legitimate concerns to international welfare. And it's especially tricky to claim to be anti-war because, in general, I don't believe that it's possible to be anti-war as a nation without making shady political deals. And being anti-war now would lump me in with most of the US protesters (I make no claims about the rest of the world) who are using this as an excuse to protest a lot more things than just American bully tactics.

What I feel is really happening, is that governments are still being run in an out-dated fashion. One in which communication is believed to be slow. Most governments know that information is not slow, though, so they cannot divulge sensitive information because news travels too quickly. I'm also unsure of the status of a "nation" in terms of modern communication. We are not separated by more than a few minutes from any other person in the entire world. Thus nations no longer appear to act as governments as much as political associates entailing mostly business and armory transactions. This, in turn, leads to the belief that the war is strictly over oil, which I would warrant is a large concern but not the primary reason that the Bush administration is pushing for action and a gross over-exaggeration. We are still at peace with most of the other oil-producing nations and certainly will protect these "assets" to the best of our ability. This argument reminds me of the protests that the Afghanistan purge of the Taliban was only for oil.

All of this is complicated by the agendas of media agents around the world. The biases in each of these outlets are just as bad as any bias found in the American media thus the "facts" being uncovered by foreign press can be as ludicrously misleading. As such, I do find it odd that foreign press is believed more trust-worthy when it comes to delivering dirty information about America than American media. Naturally, this is because as Americans most people believe that unless we are hated by a region of the world, the coverage of our doings will be more even-handed.

Anyway, I don't want to get too preachy about what's wrong with politics and media. I still find it hard to take a side on the current war because I feel we are being left in the dark and almost any argument on either side of the issue can be countered with conjectures because that's all we have. There are very few facts to go off and I have no idea how trust-worthy are any of the characters involved in this whole debacle. The one I would like to believe the most would be Hans Blix, but then again I have no idea the history of this man and what his past actions and beliefs have been. Even as such, he hasn't really provided any information to either side of the debate because he's found very little (which the anti-war group latches onto) but believes that there is something hidden (which the pro-war group latches onto).

Thus, I am caught at a road where I do not feel that I could choose either side. I'd like peace, I predict war. I don't like the oppressiveness and out-and-out lies of Saddam, I don't know of a resolution to the situation without violence (either by an outside force like the US, which I don't necessarily agree with, or an internal revolution). I don't want to put my own life on the line to settle an international dispute whose details are intangible, I don't want to be involved with a country which stays away from foreign contact. Mostly, I'm just ready for this quarter to be over.

[bellwethr.livejournal.com]

Hmm. I never meant to imply that I thought that oil was the only cause for the current situation; I think the situation is extraordinarily complex, and has manifold causes including oil, Bush's desire to follow through on his father's war and gigantic inferiority complex, the current state of the economy, as well as our inability to capture Bin Laden and Iraq's history of human rights abuses.

However, the fact that Iraq is the world's second largest producer of oil (11%) is undeniable. The majority of Iraq has yet to be explored for oil, and current projections indicate that Iraq might have twice it's discovered capacity--pushing it up to tie with Saudi Arabia for the largest oil supply. Is that something Bush would like to have in the hands of a US-controlled government? Yes.

Your concerns and your predictions are valid--I don't like Saddam's lies anymore than I like Bush's. I'd like a true dialogue between Saddam and Bush--the debates that Saddam suggested would have certainly been interesting!

[essentialsaltes.livejournal.com]

Do you remember where you were when we last declared war on Iraq and Hussein?

Yeah, I was just starting grad school, you little whippersnapper. I supported the war then, but as you've pointed out, today's situation is quite different. There has been no grievous insult, like the attack on Kuwait. Sure he's probably got naughty weapons, but it's not as if we don't.
W has just terminized his speechifying. I'm depressed.

[chrysaphi.livejournal.com]

I was in 8th grade too, and I don't remember a moment when I found out we were at war, really. I think the "war" thing had become a reality for me when my cousin was sent over there, which was well in advance of the war declaration. As for this time around, I've posted a semi-coherent subset of my thoughts in my own journal. If I were less lazy, I'd make it a coherent essay.

It's kind of funny, how many of us childhood-Republicans there seem to be.

[pants-of-doom.livejournal.com]

9th grade. 15 years old. I skipped class to go to a teach-in the morning of 1/17. That night I went to a protest march in downtown. I was aware of war as something wrong, something destructive rather than constructive. I was aware of the US, an overarmed bully, killing strangers so we could all keep driving, something I didn't know how to do anyway. My politics haven't changed much. I'm still trying to be a pacifist. I'm still not a democrat or a republican.

This time I have a better understanding of the larger politics (not hard). This time I understand about the bid for reelection and the push for global power. This time the Dead Kennedys song about war being good for the economy keeps running through my head. This time the president is the stupid one, and the vice president is the smart one. This time I'm being blamed because I didn't vote for Gore last presidential election, even though the two states I could have voted in weren't swing states. This time I am more afraid. Whether that's my own paranoia over my legal troubles or my age or because it's worse this time I couldn't tell you.

[sillygoosegirl.livejournal.com]

I don't know if I've ever met you, but I was poking around at Mudder journals...

It's so good to hear sentiments like that expressed. There are so many people around me who don't seem to give a damn about whether or not we go to war, and think protesting is stupid. I went to protests last time around. I'd like to go to some again, but it's harder this time because I don't have friends and family around who share my viewpoint and interest in protesting. My mom (mapper) posted a bunch of the signs she saw at a recent protest in her LJ. I really liked the one that says "How did our oil get under their sand?"

Somebody had a comment about the weapons and how we have weapons too. A lot of people would argue that we can trust our own government not to use them. I really wish I could, but I can't. I couldn't a year ago, and I especially can't now. Perhaps I over estimate Saddam, but I'm betting I wouldn't have anything to fear from him if Bush would just leave him alone.